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Published on July 5, 2010 By dan_l In Blogging

I've written about the tendency of the derailed right to bash unemployed folks here and here. Truthfully, I still find the idea totally inexplicable. Politically it just doesn't seem right. For giggles I put this together:

Top X states for unemployment, red/blue coding of the rate based on '08's presidential election results. Obviously, this is a 'broad' look and it's not geared for detail digging, but rather was something I kicked together to see if there was a meaningful pattern there.

The two most striking things to me:

1. We know that Nevada is a highly contested race to bounce Harry Reid. Nevada also has the highest unemployment rate in the union.

2. Florida, Ohio, NC, and Indiana all broke blue in 08, but not by much---less than 5% or so. Ohio and Florida are currently toss ups (aren't they always). Indiana leans red at this point.

Doesn't it just seem counterintuitive that, where you have ---no doubt---economic induced misery to actually pound the pulpit to make what is an already very difficult situation even worse. Angle/Hatch's loud and stupid mouths aside, isn't it just a queer thing to do? It's an election year for christ's sake.

One of the things that GOP has used really effectively over the last 10 (well, more than 10, and it's not just the GOP who's doing it--but I won't go into it) are these wedge issues. Issues with invisible demons - issues that solidify an 'us' and highlight a 'them'. This doesn't even seem to have that stink to it: no doubt every single person in the states knows somebody who lost a job or a house. Pile on the unemployed folks? No voter is that much of an animal.

So I'm still at a loss on an explanation for this. It's not great policy, it doesn't serve any discernible political purpose....and maybe that can be explained:

Krugman has a thought:

But that was then. Today, American workers face the worst job market since the Great Depression, with five job seekers for every job opening, with the average spell of unemployment now at 35 weeks. Yet the Senate went home for the holiday weekend without extending benefits. How was that possible?

The answer is that we’re facing a coalition of the heartless, the clueless and the confused. Nothing can be done about the first group, and probably not much about the second. But maybe it’s possible to clear up some of the confusion.

And the money shot:

So, is there any chance that these arguments will get through? Not, I fear, to Republicans: “It is difficult to get a man to understand something,” said Upton Sinclair, “when his salary” — or, in this case, his hope of retaking Congress — “depends upon his not understanding it.” But there are also centrist Democrats who have bought into the arguments against helping the unemployed. It’s up to them to step back, realize that they have been misled — and do the right thing by passing extended benefits.

In Krugman's view maybe the point is to inflict more misery. Maybe that misery isn't so useful now, but has the potential to be the greatest ally of the GOP when they take on Obama in '12. I don't necessarily buy it - truthfully a guy who says this - is somebody you should always be cautious of. But by far, the most plausible explanation for the anti-unemployed bend the gop is on right now.


Comments (Page 1)
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on Jul 06, 2010

Anti-unemployed is such a DNC talking point.

Conservatives are not "anti-unemployed", but there has to be a limit somewhere.  Last I looked, people were getting unemployment benefits for up to two years at least in some parts of the States.  Two years?

When does it stop becoming unemployment and begin being welfare? 

on Jul 06, 2010

One person lumped Unemployment with Welfare.  And now it is a right wing issue.  So goes the truth.  The first casualty in the panic to maintain a proletariat of the enlightened.  Or for the less read, the democrats.

on Jul 06, 2010

ID:  fine and dandy.  But why choose to draw the line now during the worst economic crisis in modern history?

Out of curiosity, when you've got one long sitting gop senator thinking that the unemployed folks are drug addicts and another possibly soon to be gop gal saying that the unemployed are lazy/entitled, and an entire party line voting against the extention of benefits:  if that's not an anti-unemployed sentiment, what do you call it? 

 

DG:  Apparently at least 2.  Sharon Angle and ID just did it now.  Hatch just implied that there all a bunch of degenerates. 

 

Maybe Krugman is more on than I thought: 

By the heartless, I mean Republicans who have made the cynical calculation that blocking anything President Obama tries to do — including, or perhaps especially, anything that might alleviate the nation’s economic pain — improves their chances in the midterm elections. Don’t pretend to be shocked: you know they’re out there, and make up a large share of the G.O.P. caucus.

 

I mean really, even if you're going to pull this shit under the guise of cutting government spending, why not just cut actual government spending where nobody cares?  Why pick human targets? 

 

It just doesn't politically make sense.  At all. 

on Jul 06, 2010

I should add:

As much as both of you seem hell bent on making this a Dem vs. Us (HAHA I made a pun!) issue, it really isn't. 

I mean, obviously, the gop could have manned up and just voted for the unemployment extension and not a single person would have gotten their dander up.  The entirety of this issue was manufactured by the republicans.

 

I know.  I know.  "That there is lib-ruhl talk".  But what are you going to say: "Somebody has to stand up to the democrats so that they don't hand out free money to the people hardest hit the lack of jobs"?  Seriously? Going to bat with that?

Again, if you really buy into that, I'll entertain it for the time being.  But is that really a politically practical move at the moment? 

on Jul 06, 2010

Out of curiosity, when you've got one long sitting gop senator thinking that the unemployed folks are drug addicts and another possibly soon to be gop gal saying that the unemployed are lazy/entitled, and an entire party line voting against the extention of benefits:  if that's not an anti-unemployed sentiment, what do you call it?

It doesn't have to be called anything.  The fact is the longer someone is on government assistance the more dependent they become.  

As I said, where does it end?  Another year, then comes another extension, and then again, and again, and again.  

on Jul 06, 2010

DG: Apparently at least 2. Sharon Angle and ID just did it now. Hatch just implied that there all a bunch of degenerates.

I should have added "leader", but thought that was understood from the article itself.

Maybe Krugman is more on than I thought:

The problem is the Obama government IS MAKING it welfare.  Unemployment insurance, contrary to Krugman and Pelosi, is not a lifetime benefit.  Do you know how long 99 weeks are?  The fund was set up as a short term transition.  The Republicans (we will exclude un-elected ones for the moment) are saying fine, we can extend it - show us the money!  Krugman says that is heartless.  Well, what do you call someone who donates a $1,000,000 to a charity that does not have it?  regardless of the nobility of the charity, saying you are going to give money you do not have falls into one of 2 categories.

1. Fraud.  You just defrauded the charity

2. Theft.  The clown has to steal it to get it.

Krugman is an idiot.  But then, like the philanthropist that donates money he does not have, they are a dime a dozen.

on Jul 06, 2010

I mean, obviously, the gop could have manned up and just voted for the unemployment extension and not a single person would have gotten their dander up. The entirety of this issue was manufactured by the republicans.

Sure, and while you are at it, go ahead and buy the mercedes you cannot afford.  Again. DEMOCRATS and Republicans voted (and Obama screamed he was going to) PAY AS YOU GO.  Apparently the only ones with any integrity are the republicans (not in all cases, but in this one).

on Jul 06, 2010

Island Dog

As I said, where does it end?  Another year, then comes another extension, and then again, and again, and again.  

It ends when all people are "employed" the way Pelosi thinks they are - receiving government handouts only.

on Jul 06, 2010

I love how it's called extensions when it's obvious they had this planned all along as another "here's a 20% discount with every purchase" sales pitch to get people to like Obama and ignore the failures.

This is no longer unemployment, it's welfare. I should know, my parents were on welfare when i was young. Hell, I was the family interpreter for the welfare office. I have had unemployment and let me tell you while it's great to have a back up plan such as this even I know this can not last forever and it has to end some time.

Extensions will only push back a bit the inevitable truth that this Administration failed to accomplish that which they said would be fixed by the stimulus bill. I have nothing against those who are unemployed but seeing as this situation may not start to fix itself and jobs will not start to truly be created for another year or 2, will we be giving unemployment till this happens? Will we extend unemployment for 4, maybe 5 years? As ID asked, when will this end? Where is the limit?

This is not about hurting the unemployed, it's about facing the facts that we can not just keep giving money away during a time when the economy is screwed. By the same token that this is a bad time to go against the extension due to the economy, you ignore the fact that this is a bad time to be overspending due to the economy since overspending is what got us here in the first place.

Makes me wonder just how temping those jobs only illegals will do are these days compared to unemployment.  Free money vs working under the sun for close to minimum wage. Guess it doesn't take a genius to figure that one out.

on Jul 06, 2010

If I gonna bust my balls to earn a check so that someone else can get paid while staying home for 4 or 5 years with the excuse that there are no jobs (BTW, 8 people have been hired where I work it the last few months and at my wifes job they hire almost on a weekly bases, just an example), then I want to stay home too. After all, I got a 3rd child on the way, and I don't even qualify for welfare, foodstamps of medicaid even though I only make about $11 an hour and my wife makes about $10.

on Jul 06, 2010

Makes me wonder just how temping those jobs only illegals will do are these days compared to unemployment. Free money vs working under the sun for close to minimum wage. Guess it doesn't take a genius to figure that one out.

It does not have to be minimum wage either.  But I will tell you that I have been unemployed twice in my career.  And both times I did take a job paying less.  For those unwilling to do so, yea, it can take years.  The first time, I actually switched careers, calling upon skills that were a part of my previous position, but I got a job in 4 months.  The second time, while I was unofficially out of work for only 2 months, I actually knew it was coming for 3 months prior to that.  Fortunately I did not have to switch careers then.

But in both cases, I did take a pay cut.  The first time it was 20%, the second it was much smaller.  You do not need to be unemployed for 2 years.  That just means you have set your expectations too high - or are enjoying not working.  BTW:  The first time was during the "worst recession since the great depression!" Version 1 (or was it 2?  I do not recall if that line was used in 1980).

on Jul 06, 2010

I have been unemployed before, when I moved from Miami to Puerto Rico about 6 or 7 years ago. My brother fired me (personal problems back then) but gave me unemployment. Used it for about 6 months as jobs in Puerto Rico in my small town was hard to come by, but thanks to my sister I eventually found a decent part time.

on Jul 07, 2010

As I said, where does it end? Another year, then comes another extension, and then again, and again, and again.

It 'ends' when it becomes a reasonable proposition for somebody to acquire gainful employment---at least them having a fighting chance.  Despite slight gains, there still does not appear to be enough jobs. If you want to say that the economy is doing ok and there's plenty of jobs available, I guess that's ok. 

I don't think there's a single rubric right now that would indicate that things are 'ok'.  I don't even think there's anything that's really even 'pointing up'. 



The fact is the longer someone is on government assistance the more dependent they become.

Really?  I mean, really?  300, 400 bucks a week is convincing people to sit at home? 



This is no longer unemployment, it's welfare.

Now that's just fucking appalling. 



This is not about hurting the unemployed, it's about facing the facts that we can not just keep giving money away during a time when the economy is screwed.

Well yes.  Actually you can.  And on balance, it's not that much money as compared to the pointless bailouts in Detroit and the cash dollars expended to 'save' a bunch of banks. And on balance, you'd much rather have consumers with even a few dollars to pump into a failing retail economy anyway. 

 

Makes me wonder just how temping those jobs only illegals will do are these days compared to unemployment. Free money vs working under the sun for close to minimum wage. Guess it doesn't take a genius to figure that one out.

Yeah because that's a practical dilemma. 

 

 

on Jul 07, 2010

Really?  I mean, really?  300, 400 bucks a week is convincing people to sit at home?

You have never been out in the real world have you?  People will stay home for much less than that.

 

Now that's just fucking appalling.

It's reality.  As Guy said, people have 99 weeks of unemployment....ALMOST TWO YEARS!  There has to be an end somewhere.

 

on Jul 07, 2010

It 'ends' when it becomes a reasonable proposition for somebody to acquire gainful employment-

No.  All you have to do is look at welfare.  You are trying to be subjective in an objective law.  The rules are clear.  It never ends unless you adhere to the rules, and you are telling them to just chuck them out the door.

Really? I mean, really? 300, 400 bucks a week is convincing people to sit at home?

I have no hard data to back up the statement that you replied to (nor do I care to google them).  However, the press is doing the work of the OP in this case giving us numerous stories of exactly what he states.  Anecdotal - true.  But in lieu of any quantifiable data (none presented so far), the statement stands as true.

Now that's just fucking appalling.

No, but it goes to a basic difference between us.  Unemployment is meant to help people find new jobs, not take a "daddy break" or extended vacation.  Those using it for such are simply on welfare.  Your job is to prove otherwise.

Well yes. Actually you can. And on balance, it's not that much money as compared to the pointless bailouts in Detroit and the cash dollars expended to 'save' a bunch of banks. And on balance, you'd much rather have consumers with even a few dollars to pump into a failing retail economy anyway.

No you cannot.  Just take it to its logical conclusion.  How is the government going to support 300 million on unemployment?  Weimar Germany (and Argentina and Chile) have shown us that just printing money is no solution.  Or are you like the current administration that believes this is a new economy where the rules of economics no longer apply?

 

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