Tech, politics, sports, and the overuse of ellipses...
Published on July 5, 2010 By dan_l In Blogging

I've written about the tendency of the derailed right to bash unemployed folks here and here. Truthfully, I still find the idea totally inexplicable. Politically it just doesn't seem right. For giggles I put this together:

Top X states for unemployment, red/blue coding of the rate based on '08's presidential election results. Obviously, this is a 'broad' look and it's not geared for detail digging, but rather was something I kicked together to see if there was a meaningful pattern there.

The two most striking things to me:

1. We know that Nevada is a highly contested race to bounce Harry Reid. Nevada also has the highest unemployment rate in the union.

2. Florida, Ohio, NC, and Indiana all broke blue in 08, but not by much---less than 5% or so. Ohio and Florida are currently toss ups (aren't they always). Indiana leans red at this point.

Doesn't it just seem counterintuitive that, where you have ---no doubt---economic induced misery to actually pound the pulpit to make what is an already very difficult situation even worse. Angle/Hatch's loud and stupid mouths aside, isn't it just a queer thing to do? It's an election year for christ's sake.

One of the things that GOP has used really effectively over the last 10 (well, more than 10, and it's not just the GOP who's doing it--but I won't go into it) are these wedge issues. Issues with invisible demons - issues that solidify an 'us' and highlight a 'them'. This doesn't even seem to have that stink to it: no doubt every single person in the states knows somebody who lost a job or a house. Pile on the unemployed folks? No voter is that much of an animal.

So I'm still at a loss on an explanation for this. It's not great policy, it doesn't serve any discernible political purpose....and maybe that can be explained:

Krugman has a thought:

But that was then. Today, American workers face the worst job market since the Great Depression, with five job seekers for every job opening, with the average spell of unemployment now at 35 weeks. Yet the Senate went home for the holiday weekend without extending benefits. How was that possible?

The answer is that we’re facing a coalition of the heartless, the clueless and the confused. Nothing can be done about the first group, and probably not much about the second. But maybe it’s possible to clear up some of the confusion.

And the money shot:

So, is there any chance that these arguments will get through? Not, I fear, to Republicans: “It is difficult to get a man to understand something,” said Upton Sinclair, “when his salary” — or, in this case, his hope of retaking Congress — “depends upon his not understanding it.” But there are also centrist Democrats who have bought into the arguments against helping the unemployed. It’s up to them to step back, realize that they have been misled — and do the right thing by passing extended benefits.

In Krugman's view maybe the point is to inflict more misery. Maybe that misery isn't so useful now, but has the potential to be the greatest ally of the GOP when they take on Obama in '12. I don't necessarily buy it - truthfully a guy who says this - is somebody you should always be cautious of. But by far, the most plausible explanation for the anti-unemployed bend the gop is on right now.


Comments (Page 2)
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on Jul 07, 2010

Dan, answer this. Do you feel everyone should get an extension or should they exclude "hicks and teabaggers" (your words I believe)?

on Jul 08, 2010

ID:  fine and dandy.  But why choose to draw the line now during the worst economic crisis in modern history?

Because if we don't, the economic crisis will continue.

 

on Jul 08, 2010

Really? I mean, really? 300, 400 bucks a week is convincing people to sit at home?

What planet you live on? I have family who have made living on welfare a full time job, ironically. I make just over $400 a week after taxes, but I rather work than stay home doing little if anything. But you seem to be under the impression that people who are on welfare or unemployment are not finding ways to get paid "under the table". You'd be amazed how many people who get unemployment or welfare actually have part time jobs that are under the table. I should know as I did this once before when I was working for my uncle. Since I was just working 2 or 3 hours for about $60 a week he didn't want to put me as employed and I have an aunt that worked at bars while getting welfare and social security. She was never broke.

Now that's just fucking appalling.

It's called reality, deal with it. There's a difference between the people who read the stories and those who experience it.

Well yes. Actually you can. And on balance, it's not that much money as compared to the pointless bailouts in Detroit and the cash dollars expended to 'save' a bunch of banks. And on balance, you'd much rather have consumers with even a few dollars to pump into a failing retail economy anyway.

It's kinda ironic you say this considering it was overspending that got us here in the first place and your solution to the problem that cause millions to lose their jobs is to continue to spend money we don't have, not necessarily on job creation (I don't care what Pelosi says) but on the people who are unemployed. What's the point of college? What's the point of education for that matter? Why bother learning to become workers in the future if the Gov't will give you money if you don't work anyways, be it thru unemployment or welfare?

Yeah because that's a practical dilemma.

Practical dilemma? I bet if all these jobs illegals do would all of a sudden open up, people would still keep getting unemployment. Why? Because they would rather get free money than work, especially if the free money was the same or more than the job they would get and with this new healthcare bill, there is no worry about not having insurance, supposedly.

on Jul 10, 2010

@DG/ID: 

I think your major confusion here stems from this: 

Unemployment is not welfare.  I know that the Orin Hatch comments and the Sharon Angle comments make you believe that all them there unemployeds are just sitting around collecting their big fat government cheese check, but it just isn't the case.  There are many, many, people in that group who can't (and won't) get by on 300 bucks a week.  Seriously:  300 dollars might cover our cell phone/internet bill.  That's about it. 

I get it.  Welfare bad.  Chronic welfare worse, generational welfare awful.  All societal issues.  But unemployment checks in a time where the unemployment rate is at 9 and a half points:  it's just a little novacane for the root canal...it's enough to help ease the pain, but sure isn't going to knock you out.  

 

Incidentally:

No you cannot.  Just take it to its logical conclusion.  How is the government going to support 300 million on unemployment?  Weimar Germany (and Argentina and Chile) have shown us that just printing money is no solution.  Or are you like the current administration that believes this is a new economy where the rules of economics no longer apply?

 

YEAH YEAH I'M JUST LIKE THAT OBAMA!  Really man.  This isn't Weirmar Germany. We're sure as shit not Argentina and Chille.  I don't even think they wear shoes there.   This is a vastly different economy from what it was 30 years ago.  Now, that's not to say that I believe that the obama ARRA mechanism was executed correctly or that TARP was a good idea.  But, that is to say that we can't keep going off of this outdated hardline playbook of how to deal with this. 

And, again, it has absolutely nothing to do with why we can't help out some unemployed folks. 

 

 

Because if we don't, the economic crisis will continue.
 

Leauki?   How so?  Specifically, how does a little shot in the arm cause the crisis to continue.  You can't give a FIT break to people who aren't paying. 

 

ut you seem to be under the impression that people who are on welfare or unemployment are not finding ways to get paid "under the table". You'd be amazed how many people who get unemployment or welfare actually have part time jobs that are under the table. I should know as I did this once before when I was working for my uncle

More confusion between unemployment and welfare.  Who did that to you? 

 

What's the point of college? What's the point of education for that matter? Why bother learning to become workers in the future if the Gov't will give you money if you don't work anyways, be it thru unemployment or welfare?

Well.  I went to college.  I can tell you pretty conclusively that 400 dollars a week won't even be enough cause for me to drink coffee. It certainly doesn't support my life style or that of my family.  Ditto for most of the college grads I know. And those that are on unemployment.....

 

Practical dilemma? I bet if all these jobs illegals do would all of a sudden open up, people would still keep getting unemployment.

Really, that's what this is about?  You're so concerned with the illegal immigrants that you want to fuck otherwise hard working Americans for being caught up in the worst economic crisis in recent history? 

 

 

on Jul 10, 2010

Leauki?   How so?

A working economy consists of people being productive and keeping the wealth they generate (hence they have a reason to be productive).

Social welfare is a system designed to pay people for not being productive. It causes economic crises. This is why a well-functioning socialist system generates about as much wealth as a capitalist system in deep recession.

I do think that the government can help bringing the economy out of a recession. But social welfare is not a method to do it. I think the government should use the opportunity of available labour and invest in the infrastructure, build roads and railways, that sort of thing.

 

on Jul 12, 2010

Unemployment is not welfare. I know that the Orin Hatch comments and the Sharon Angle comments make you believe that all them there unemployeds are just sitting around collecting their big fat government cheese check, but it just isn't the case. There are many, many, people in that group who can't (and won't) get by on 300 bucks a week. Seriously: 300 dollars might cover our cell phone/internet bill. That's about it.

No, you miss the point. Unemployment is not welfare.  Unemployment extensions ARE Welfare.  The rules are set up so that there is a safety net, and the money is calculated for that net.  And you pay (through Payroll taxes).  BUT, extending it comes from the same money pot as welfare.  Unemployment is earned.  Extensions are not.  And if you have a 1200 cell phone bill, you need to get a new plan!

This isn't Weirmar Germany.

Apples are oranges again, right?  Sorry, but you do not have to commit every error to learn from them.  Smart people learn not only from their own errors, but that of others as well.  It is not Weimar Germany - YET.  There is no reason it cannot be just like them IF WE MAKE THE SAME MISTAKES.

 

on Jul 12, 2010

More confusion between unemployment and welfare. Who did that to you?

If this is the best you can respond then I see no point in continuing the "debate".

Well. I went to college. I can tell you pretty conclusively that 400 dollars a week won't even be enough cause for me to drink coffee. It certainly doesn't support my life style or that of my family. Ditto for most of the college grads I know. And those that are on unemployment.....

I didn't finish college, my own stupid choice. But just so you know, I have co-workers who recently started working here with me with degree's that make my job look like a fast food job. Yet, here they are. $400 is not enough for a family, but then my wife does work too and she brings in pretty much the same so we are doing semi decent.

Really, that's what this is about? You're so concerned with the illegal immigrants that you want to fuck otherwise hard working Americans for being caught up in the worst economic crisis in recent history?

That I want to fuck hard working Americans? Now who's confused. i thought we were talking about the unemployed? How the "fuck" do I want to "fuck" employed people when we are talking about unemployment? Looks like you are more confused than Biden.

 

on Jul 12, 2010

There are many, many, people in that group who can't (and won't) get by on 300 bucks a week.  Seriously:  300 dollars might cover our cell phone/internet bill.  That's about it. 

Wow.

Neither cell phone nor Internet are strictly needed for a decent life. And 1200 bucks for cell phone and Internet access is beyond what I can even imagine paying.

And I waste _a lot_ of money on cell phone bills and Internet access!

(Highest cell phone bill was around 400 euros. Roaming in Israel.)

 

on Jul 12, 2010

(Highest cell phone bill was around 400 euros. Roaming in Israel.)

Always keep your cell phone on a leash - so it does not roam.

on Jul 12, 2010

Always keep your cell phone on a leash - so it does not roam.

2000 years ago the Italians were roaming the Mediterranean. The result was called the Roamin' Empire.

 

on Jul 13, 2010

If this is the best you can respond then I see no point in continuing the "debate".

Right.  Anything you can do to insulate yourself from reality you should do.  Especially when your attitude about policy is so positively misguided that it fucks average, hard working Americans in favor of hating on that president who you like.  I recommend continuing to close your mind to the economic realities of modern America. 

 

 

That I want to fuck hard working Americans? Now who's confused. i thought we were talking about the unemployed? How the "fuck" do I want to "fuck" employed people when we are talking about unemployment? Looks like you are more confused than Biden.

Ohhhhh I see.  So unemployed folks aren't otherwise hard working Americans.  They're just bums, right? I mean, it's not like they're caught up in this mess because of very bad situations, it's that they're just lazy, drug using  twits sucking at the government teat. There's no people who are busting their ass to find a job----hell most of them probably never worked a day in their whole life, right? YEAH YEAH JOE BIDEN YEAH YEAH SOCIALIST!

Thank you.  Thank you kindly.  You've proven my point entirely. 

 

Neither cell phone nor Internet are strictly needed for a decent life.

Says you! 

I mean look, sure you could get by without it.  But I think most people would consider internet/cell phone/running water to be pretty essential. 

 

on Jul 13, 2010

But I think most people would consider internet/cell phone/running water to be pretty essential.

Like George Obama?  No, the Middle tier and poor (not poverty since they do not exist) in America love the convenience.  But they are hardly a necessity.  My mother does without a cell phone (and until recently a computer as well).  It sure is NICE TO HAVE, but not essential.  just like Color TVS, Cable, Cars, and AC are all nice to have, but not essential.  We did without them growing up.

But I know of the mentality you speak of.  A co-worker was undergoing a nasty divorce and it was very costly.  But he "insisted" he just had to have his nights out with the guys (even though he could not make his alimony payments).  It is a sign of softness, not necessity.

on Jul 13, 2010

Says you!  

No. Says the 80s.

 

I mean look, sure you could get by without it.  But I think most people would consider internet/cell phone/running water to be pretty essential.

Running water is essential because it guarantees a certain hygiene level. I want the poor guy next door not to spread disease and he can have the tools needed to prevent himself from doing so for free, if he likes.

But that's it. I don't need him to have a cell phone or Internet access and I don't see why I should pay for something I don't need or want, especially when other people in the world are starving and could use the money I am forced to pay as welfare taxes much better.

If this is about a decent life for the poor, tax me and give the money to the hungry.

But if you tax me and give the money to some guy for his Internet connection, you have left the territory of helping the poor and have entered the land of the opportunistic thieves, depriving both the poor of help and the rich of their hard-earned money.

 

on Jul 13, 2010

But if you tax me and give the money to some guy for his Internet connection,

They already do in America.  They slapped the Universal Service tax on all of us about 15 years ago.

on Jul 14, 2010

Running water is essential because it guarantees a certain hygiene level. I want the poor guy next door not to spread disease and he can have the tools needed to prevent himself from doing so for free, if he likes.

Dude, it was a joke.  Calm down. You're not going to get ebola. 

 

God damn.  I'm going to start italicizing sarcasm for people. 

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